Feddit.org announced today that they are changing their rules to match German law despite their server not being hosted in Germany.

Feddit.org now bans:

  • The sentence “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”

  • Comparing Israel to the Nazis

  • Calls to end Zionism

  • Calling for the dissolution of Israel

And much more. The full original post can be found here, or

Click here for full text of original post:

Hi.

In the past few days, discontent regarding mod decisions in this community has been brewing, particularly when it comes to comments on Palestine, Israel, and Israeli politics and actions. There are also misunderstandings regarding mod intention and German law. We hope to clear that up with this post.

While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany. Speaking of, our server admins have also posted a write-up on the same topic.

And with that, let’s go:

In Germany, antisemitism is specifically sanctioned in German criminal law, both for speech and as a motivation for other criminal behavior. In addition, Germany seeks to protect the Jewish state of Israel (the so-called “Reason of State” introduced in 2008) and thus verges toward protecting Zionism as well. Certain criticism of Israel/Israelis is also categorized as “Israel-related antisemitism”.

Since criminal law is involved, enforcement can mean things like police raids and device confiscations. After such police action, it does not really matter if it was appropriate or if cases are dropped or never charged: The damage is done. All told, it’s not that fun.

There is also no point in engaging in discussions about the veracity of statements that could get us into legal trouble. In addition, we believe that you can express most opinions without breaking rules.

If your comment contains the following, it will be removed from this community:

  • Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.
  • Calling for a destruction, annihilation, an end of all Zionism or the like.
  • Equating Israeli actions and (historical) Nazism.
  • The slogan “from the river…”
  • Endorsement of or justifications for Hamas or Hezbollah, or slogans or graphics positively referring to these organizations. These are considered terrorist organizations in Germany.
  • … and obviously: Any of the common antisemitic tropes or calls to violence against Jews or Israelis

Comments will not be removed for the following:

  • Denouncing genocide.
  • Denouncing Israeli war crimes.
  • Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement.
  • Referring to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” “expansionist,” or “far-right”.

If your comment is removed nonetheless, these are not the reason. I’d also like to stress that this community was never a free-speech-absolutist zone: It is a (usually lightly) moderated community. There may also be times when bans go too far. In such cases, please DM the @EuroMod@feddit.org account (which all mods have access to).

To help you understand why, I'll leave an assortment of sources here (translations via DeepL).

  • A news report:

    Berlin in mid-May [2024] around 6 o’clock in the morning. A loud, continuous “banging” against the apartment door wakes student Alina T. from her sleep. […] When her husband opens the door, several LKA officers, two employees of the district office and the SEK “storm” past him into the apartment. Puzzled, he looks at the search warrant. […] The background to this was a Facebook entry in the student’s profile: "From the river […]

  • A legal treatise:

    In November 2023, the Federal Ministry of the Interior and for Home Affairs also issued a prohibition order against Hamas.[60] According to the order, “the slogan ‘From the River to the Sea’ (in German or other languages)” is a distinguishing mark of Hamas[61]. […] the current legal situation [regarding “Denial of Israel’s right to exist”] is - contrary to what the statements of the Federal Ministry of Justice suggest[63] - anything but clear. Whether incitements to eliminate the State of Israel are prosecuted depends on the respective legal opinion and the prosecution will of the respective public prosecutor’s office.

  • Press release from the previous government:

    In this context, Section 111 StGB, which covers public incitement to commit crimes, may also be relevant. Incitement to extinguish Israel’s existence by force may be punishable under this provision. The same applies to calls to publicly display the Hamas flag. If Hamas attacks are publicly cheered and celebrated, this may also be punishable. This means that people who cheer on Hamas’s actions or publicly express their sympathy with the attacks may constitute the criminal offence of “approval of criminal acts” under Section 140 of the German Criminal Code (StGB).

  • Another news report

    In connection with the controversial Palestine Congress in Berlin, the German authorities have also imposed an entry ban on former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis. “In order to prevent antisemitic and anti-Israel propaganda at the event”, several entry bans have been issued, the news agency AFP learned from security sources on Sunday. One of these concerned Varoufakis. (Notably, Varoufakis would have spoken about one-state solutions …)

  • Overview Germany in 2024 by Amnesty International

  • Overview Germany in 2024 by Human Rights Watch

federal reverse (on behalf of the mods of !europe)

  • woelkchen@lemmy.worldMEnglish
    205·
    2 days ago

    I think the post in itself is informational, many of the comments are not.

    Post stays, comments get locked.

  • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
    12616·
    3 days ago

    Y’all should actually read the post. They’re clear that they don’t want to do this but fear extreme repression by the German government, and they even listed examples of what exactly they’re trying to avoid. I’m no Israel apologist, but I’m convinced.

    • Chozo@fedia.io
      808·
      3 days ago

      I’ve read the post, and I’m still unhappy with their decision. Capitulation only accelerates fascism.

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
        432·
        3 days ago

        That’s true, but it’s still up to them whether they want to get arrested over social media comments somebody else made.

      • then_three_more@lemmy.worldEnglish
        199·
        2 days ago

        Sounds like you need to just make sure you’re specifying the current government of Israel and their actions, rather than the state of Israel in general terms or as a overall concept.

        Comments will not be removed for the following: Denouncing genocide. • Denouncing Israeli war crimes. • Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement. • Referring to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” “expansionist,” or “far-right”.

    • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      526·
      2 days ago

      I agree. Nobody should be risking their safety / livelihood / whatever to host a random internet discussion site. That doesn’t mean we should leave the situation as it is. I believe the main concern is to move off the !europe comm there and onto the new one at !europe@lemmy.dbzer0.com

      • Keeponstalin@lemmy.worldEnglish
        386·
        2 days ago

        This is the best solution.

        Zionism is a fascist ideology. There is nothing to gain from hosting in a country where people feel compelled to suppress opposition to and liberation against that fascist ideology out of fear of incarceration and police brutality

        Free Palestine

        ACAB

    • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      195·
      2 days ago

      Feddit users commenting beneath it support this. One of them made this “meme”:

      Feddit.org has also been banning users for things such as comparing Israel to the Nazis before they made this post. Then they owned up to it as their personal views. This is why they do not say they disagree with the German laws but they “do not wish to discuss it.”

  • JiveTurkey@lemmy.worldEnglish
    644·
    2 days ago

    I get their concerns but we shouldn’t be bullied into silence. The Israeli government is a piece of shit and we should all be allowed to say that until they’ve proven otherwise.

    • Cris@lemmy.worldEnglish
      196·
      2 days ago

      From the text of their original post it sounds like you’re still allowed to say that. It’s worth reading the post text itself (not saying that to change your stance, I have complicated feelings about this choice by them, but knowing what they’re actually saying is worthwhile)

      • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
        218·
        2 days ago

        You can do anything except demand things which could meaningfully resolve the issue.

        People are not being allowed to call for the dissolution of the Israeli Apartheid government.

        Or compare its genocidal deeds to those for which the Germans say “never again”.

        Because “never again” in Germany does not count for brown people.

        People are only allowed to voice slight discontent with Israel. Forcing people to call a major crime a minor crime is a massive form of repression in itself and it serves to downplay reality, while pretending there is no censorship.

        • Takapapatapaka@lemmy.worldEnglish
          910·
          2 days ago

          Calling a state criminal, expantionist, genocidal, brutal, saying that they should answer for their crimes, give back palestinian territories immediatly, be boycotted by the whole world, even be subject to military intervention is still perfectly fine, and that’s clearly not “slight discontent”. If you were conscious of this, you message is huge bad faith.

          What they do not allow is calling for the end of Israel, in any way. That’s indeed a major crackdown on freedom of expression, but it does not leave you wordless for Israel criticism, unless your only goal is to be against Israel, and you don’t care being alongside Palestine.

          • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
            92·
            2 days ago

            genocidal

            Comparing Israel or Germany supporting it to the Nazis is banned.

            give back palestinian territories immediatly

            This is banned. Do you not understand that all of Israel is on Palestinian land or are you not willing to understand it?

            even be subject to military intervention

            This is banned too. Every group doing this gets designated as a “terrorist” group.

            • Takapapatapaka@lemmy.worldEnglish
              26·
              2 days ago

              Genocidal : again, genocide is NOT a nazi-only thing. And yes it’s bad to not be able to equate, yet alone compare Nazis and Israel government. But you can still say ‘Israel is genocidal’.

              Palestinian territories : this is my bad, not an expert on the matter + did not think through. I meant territories destined to Palestinians in previous two-state solutions and at least recent territory annexion. From what the message says, you can still say that.

              Military intervention : you can support the intervention without supporting people doing it. Also, you can support official interventions of other countries instead of guerrillas groups. The fact that most of those groups use terrorists methods, like targetting civilians (yes, those one that Israel and most states in the world also use) does not help with terrorism part, and i think we all agree that there should be no support for hamas or hezbollah directly, though they fight for objective we should defend. (and yes, Israel is doing worse for religious and racist reasons too, and they have a kind of immunity partly because of the anti-antisemitism rethoric partly because they are a state and states are rarely condemned for use of terrorist tactics, all of this is compatible).

  • zeezee@slrpnk.netEnglish
    232·
    2 days ago

    I hadn’t noticed how pro-cop some feddit.org users are but a cursory glance at people taking police reporting at face value and then openly defending cops punching people in the face with “it’s out of context” reasoning is just surreal.

    It reeks to me of living in a bubble your whole life and never having experienced police repression - so your only response is “it can’t be the police, they’ve never done anything against me, it must be the protestors that are wrong”

    Usually I’m one that hates leftist infighting but defacto trying to suppress a genocide because the “law says so” is rather weak. Still I totally understand wanting to protect yourself from repression but surely if you cared about both justice and your well being you would just hand over the community to someone else? Unless of course you actually agree with the “law”…

  • OBJECTION!@lemmy.mlEnglish
    161·
    2 days ago

    Elad Barashi, who has worked in the Israeli entertainment industry for several years, sparked outrage after posting on X: “Good morning, let there be a Shoa (Holocaust) in Gaza.”

    In another post, he wrote, “I can’t understand the people here in the State of Israel who don’t want to fill Gaza with gas showers… or train cars… and finish this story! Let there be a Holocaust in Gaza.”

  • defunct_punk@lemmy.worldEnglish
    8613·
    3 days ago

    Germany looking 80 years in the past like “let’s do that again.”

    Israel is NOT a Jewish state, it’s a Neo-Nazi regime. If I wanted to kill as many jews as possible, I’d convince them that they “belong” in a tiny country surrounded by neighbours who want to destroy them.

  • frostysauce@lemmy.worldEnglish
    5619·
    3 days ago

    The title of this post is sensationalized, click-baitey, and factually incorrect according to the posted text. It’s as if OP either didn’t read the text they copy/pasted or they are trying to intentionally stir up shit…

      • Takapapatapaka@lemmy.worldEnglish
        712·
        2 days ago

        “they will ban criticism of Israel” : they will only ban calls for end of Israel and equating Nazis and Israel. You can still criticize Israel. Its like saying “They ban fruits” when they only ban oranges. It’s still a problem, but you’re making it larger than it seems, that’s on the path of clickbait/sensationalism (i do not think that this was intended of you though, it’s just what comes out of the way you wrote it).

        • rammer@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          132·
          2 days ago

          Equating Nazis and Zionists, if the shoe fits. You should be allowed to say it.

          • Takapapatapaka@lemmy.worldEnglish
            49·
            2 days ago

            Overall agreeing with you, you should at least be able to defend this pov.

            But that should be the title instead of ‘bans all criticism of Israel’.

            • OBJECTION!@lemmy.mlEnglish
              111·
              2 days ago

              “Bans all criticism of Israel” is not the title. The title is that they are banning criticism of Israel, which is true. It’s also true that if someone bans oranges, then they are “banning fruits,” it would only be untrue if they said, “banning all fruits.”

              The title does leave it ambiguous in a way that people might think it extends to all criticism, but that’s not actually what it says.

        • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
          134·
          2 days ago

          Apartheid South Africa needs to be dissolved.

          Israel needs to be dissolved.

          What is the difference between these two sentences and why is one of them banned on feddit.org?

          • Takapapatapaka@lemmy.worldEnglish
            37·
            2 days ago

            As you explained in your post, because of some bullshit german law and admin decision. It’s bad. We agree on this.

            Your title should still be ‘bans calls for end of Israel and calling Israel nazis’ or at the very least ‘bans some criticism of Israel’.

    • saltesc@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1810·
      2 days ago

      50% of the post here are. Echo chambers rely on most users never reading the article.

    • lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
      95·
      3 days ago

      Two out of three. I read the post and that’s exactly what the admins of F.O say will do. It’s them who are stirring up shit.

  • electric_nan@lemmy.mlEnglish
    329·
    3 days ago

    They should just shut it down rather than comply with laws which punish antipathy towards a genocidal state.

    • Takapapatapaka@lemmy.worldEnglish
      35·
      2 days ago

      It does not strictly punish antipathy towards a genocidal state, but rather antipathy towards a genocidal stage when they take the forms of call for an end of this state or equating this state with Nazis. It’s a problem, it’s bad, but please stop saying ‘they won’t let me say Israel is bad’ cuz that’s not the case (for the instance, don’t know about actual german state itself)

  • corsicanguppy@lemmy.caEnglish
    161·
    2 days ago

    Can we, as users, prevent our own posts and comments from federating to a given server?

    They’re not banning me for my accusations of genocide; I’m Banning Them

  • Dojan@lemmy.worldEnglish
    273·
    3 days ago

    It amuses me that expressing understanding with the retaliation is forbidden. I definitely understand why a militant extremist group has arisen after decades of oppression and genocide.

    Like, how do you negotiate your way out of that peacefully? Where in history has oppression on that level been defeated through diplomacy?

    I seem to have forgotten the part where the allies defeated Nazi Germany by asking nicely. Surely no war was fought for recognising black people as humans in the U.S.

    Perhaps Ukraine should put down their weapons and ask Russia to pretty please stop invading their country and killing their people.

    Ugh.

    • enkers@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      31·
      2 days ago

      This one here, right?

      Endorsement of or justifications for Hamas or Hezbollah, or slogans or graphics positively referring to these organizations. These are considered terrorist organizations in Germany.

      I don’t think expressing understanding is either endorsement or justification. So as written, it should be fine, but since it comes down to the mods interpretation, who knows what the outcome would actually be.