I want to use linux and will use it when two conditions are met:
-All my work software and the games I play the most all work on it (without requiring me to re-buy shit I already own to get a linux compatable version)
-Its user friendly enough that asking which version I should use as a beginner doesn’t result in all the linux users immediately descending into the thread equivelent of a cartoon fight cloud with random limbs flailing around.
Edit: Some feedback on the feedback:
-Apparently some of the linux versions are super user friendly but advice about this is totally inconsistent, some of the advice doesn’t even actually name a specific version or versions.
-“It all works fine you just need to install thing A through thing B and then use it to run thing C in order to run this one single program from windows” is not as encouraging as you think it is. The thought of potentially going through that for every piece of software is at least for me a big reason for not switching yet and I suspect for a lot of other people too.
-The reference page for what games work on linux is helpful though some things on it only work if you use the steam version which is the precise reason for my not wanting to re-buy things comment.
Edit: Additional question.
Is it mandatory to use the terminal for everything? Everytime I see people talk about linux or look stuff up about it the terminal seems to be everywhere. I’m somewhat familiar with the windows command line (which I assume is the terminals equivelent) but having to use that just to install software (as opposed to just running a .exe) seems really daunting.
For the last bit, that shouldn’t be a problem. It’s like going to an ice cream shop and complaining there are too many flavors and people arguing over which flavor is best makes you decide to just not get ice cream.
What you should do instead is look at the flavors of ice cream and weigh what you want with what each flavor is. Only you know what you desire. Windows wants to make their system work for everyone, so then it works for no one because everyone has different wants and needs. It’s the ice cream flavor of them shoving every ingredient together and it just creates a mess.
As for games, it’s pretty good now. There’s the issue of some multiplayer games not having updated their anti-cheat, but a lot of anti-cheat is ready. Easy anti-cheat, for example, is fine if the devs have updated it and implemented it. However, it’s not like Proton where it makes most things work without devs doing any work. Check ProtonDB for compatibility.
What work software do you need? There are alternatives for MS Office, including online versions of MS Office that don’t require an OS. Blender is great. There are plenty of code editors. Most of the alternatives are also FOSS so don’t require buying anything, though donating is encouraged.
I’ve had similar thoughts and sentiments in my (short) Linux journey, my only advice is to distro-hop a bit as many Lemmings preach, find your fit (in VM/live mode or separate machine) and dive right in.
Side effects may include hair loss in early introduction, stick with it, it’s worth it.
Visual Studio Enterprise (VS Code with a hundred plugins still doesn’t come close)
SQL Server Management Studio (though with extensions, Azure Data Studio has gotten me pretty damn close)
Full-featured Office 365 software (Edge web versions are somewhat sufficient, but not quite there)
Teams with multi-tenant. The desktop Windows app lets me quickly switch between the 6 orgs I need to, unfortunately on Linux I have to have 6 different browser profiles and use the web version which just doesn’t fly.
More responsive RDP. Unfortunately for server management I’m juggling 3-4 RDP instances daily and I’m not typically allowed to install AnyDesk or VNC or anything. I’ve tried a couple RDP alternatives and there were just all sorts of problems from keyboard issues to rendering issues to general sluggishness.
There is one weird VPN program a job forces me to run and unfortunately it isn’t available on Linux.
But! All the above said, I run Linux and have a Windows VM. And I also run Windows and have a Linux VM - so it’s almost there for me. If work & clients all ditched Microsoft’s ecosystem, it’d be a lot easier for me to but, unfortunately, they pay my bills.
Teams with multi-tenant. The desktop Windows app lets me quickly switch between the 6 orgs I need to, unfortunately on Linux I have to have 6 different browser profiles and use the web version which just doesn’t fly.
Probably never gonna happen because Microsoft has an active interest in making it not happen
There is one weird VPN program a job forces me to run and unfortunately it isn’t available on Linux.
Knowing the VPN I’m forced to use I’ll just make a blind guess that the VPN you’re forced to use doesn’t support IPv6 either, because actually providing a product instead of an overpriced relic apparently is really difficult for Enterprise VPN Companies.
Is it mandatory to use the terminal for everything?
No. Most distros have a GUI that you can use to install stuff without touching the terminal, and most distros have a GUI for configuring your system (think Control Panel in Windows).
It’s not necessary to use the terminal, but I do recommend eventually learning how to use the terminal, for a couple reasons:
It’s more ubiquitous - like you said, a lot of places online give terminal instructions, not GUI instructions for things, so knowing your way around the terminal is helpful in those situations. Plus, it makes things a little more distro-agnostic - if I’m trying to install some program, I know I can probably run apt install regardless of whether I’m running Mint, Ubuntu, PopOS, or any other Debian-based distro that uses the apt package manager.
It’s usually faster. Opening a terminal window and typing in a few dozen characters is usually going to take less time than digging through a couple layers of menus.
It’s more flexible. A lot of times, GUIs are just fronts for a terminal based application, and sometimes they only partially implement the features the terminal app exposes. By using the terminal app directly, you aren’t limited by whatever options happen to be made available in the GUI.
Again though, it’s not necessary to use the terminal. It’s definitely helpful, especially if you want to do gaming, or if you’re used to being a power user (which it seems like you are in Windows), but certainly not a requirement these days.
The first condition already are In practice tru proton and wine (even the principal anticheat work).
But the second is probably impossible, people will try to convince you to use the distros that they believe is good
Saying that, Linux mind is a good option for a Windows user
Distros being so similar is the entire reason why the comments about which is best for beginners usually descend into a mud slinging contest. Honestly most “popular” distros are perfectly reasonable for any beginner nowadays. But there is just so much choice it creates decision paralysis in people wanting to switch.
Yeah, distro variety is a block for adoption, but when you do adopt Linux, you understand why they’re there.
Good thing community starts to center on a few distros for beginners, particularly Linux Mint + 1 or 2 more. (I’m a Manjaro adept, but ready to bury the hatchet to welcome newbies, and always do recommend Mint - it is good too)
100% on the TLDR there, I’ll edit as such, that comment is open source ;)
I’ve been running Ubuntu on a separate machine for a little while now, and it works great, just not a good fit for me.
I’m happy to say within 2 weeks of my dual boot I’m already on mint 90% of the time. It just fucking works. (Without waking me up at 2-4am sending the fans to mach 7 for a damn windows update).
Exactly. I have my setup just the way I like it for final fantasy. ACT (a packet capturing DPS meter) doesn’t work without windows. Once that’s supported I may hop ship.
If a piece of software requires you to re-buy itself for a different platform why would you use such an application? I don’t get why people choose to torture themselves when there are SO many alternatives to literally anything.
Edit: thanks for the clarification on the re-buying part. Doesn’t apply to you then ʘ‿ʘ
Yeah, but a lot of users want something that does exactly what they want without tinkering. Why does everyone in the Linux community project their readiness to tinker forever on the average user.
Switching an operating system doesn’t come without tinkering. Even reinstalling an existing installation doesn’t. You have to be ready if you are willing to make a switch.
That said, LibreOffice gives you exactly what you would expect from an office suite. And it doesn’t only apply to office apps. Pretty much every field is already filled with FOSS solutions that “just work”.
Im not talking about the operating system switch. That is the trivial part. Getting software to run on wine can involve a tinkering. Sure you can run a VM, but then you have 2 operating systems you need to take care of. Also there are a lot of add on’s for proprietary programs that might not run well even if you got the bas program to run. And then if you go through the VM route you might need hardware Passthrough.
All these things are possible for people that want to put the time into it. But the majority of the population doesn’t want to spend time on stuff like this. They would rather pay for the convenience and put up with AD’s.
Take my father for example, he is completely incompetent when it comes to technology. His new PC has Windows 11 and he still plays Solitaire. Which is now plastered with AD’s, but he doesn’t care enough to do something about it.
The average end user just has his priorities somewhere else.
I meant to convey my thought in the context of the person above refusing to switch to Linux because of “re-buying stuff” (they’ve already clarified they were talking about games). I do agree that people of little technological literacy wouldn’t be willing to put in the work to get everything working.
My stance on it is that everything comes down to individual situations. I’ve installed Ubuntu on my mother’s laptop and she’s been nothing but happy about it. I just think we shouldn’t gatekeep FOSS and encourage others to use it. Whether to actually try it or not is always up to the end-user.
@nolight@CheeseNoodle I believe one use-case for those licensed paid programs are the business who truly need some trustworthy software and dedicated support. The FOSS might be great for personal use, but maybe LibreOffice doesn’t fit every company’s needs
Also an important aspect for companies is liability. If the app they paid money for screws up customer data they have someone on the hook for that. If the FOSS version does the most they have on the hook is the 40 year old dude living in his parent’s basement maintaining the project they used. Not much money to be got there for damages.
I agree, though I think LibreOffice is not a great example as there’s very little room for error and something that you would need “dedicated support” for. That’s how I see it anyway. Never worked in an office.
However, the majority of companies that require using paid proprietary software also require the use of Windows itself. A safe bet in this situation would be to just set up a VM for work and use Linux for everything else.
I want to use linux and will use it when two conditions are met:
-All my work software and the games I play the most all work on it (without requiring me to re-buy shit I already own to get a linux compatable version)
-Its user friendly enough that asking which version I should use as a beginner doesn’t result in all the linux users immediately descending into the thread equivelent of a cartoon fight cloud with random limbs flailing around.
Edit: Some feedback on the feedback:
-Apparently some of the linux versions are super user friendly but advice about this is totally inconsistent, some of the advice doesn’t even actually name a specific version or versions.
-“It all works fine you just need to install thing A through thing B and then use it to run thing C in order to run this one single program from windows” is not as encouraging as you think it is. The thought of potentially going through that for every piece of software is at least for me a big reason for not switching yet and I suspect for a lot of other people too.
-The reference page for what games work on linux is helpful though some things on it only work if you use the steam version which is the precise reason for my not wanting to re-buy things comment.
Edit: Additional question.
Is it mandatory to use the terminal for everything? Everytime I see people talk about linux or look stuff up about it the terminal seems to be everywhere. I’m somewhat familiar with the windows command line (which I assume is the terminals equivelent) but having to use that just to install software (as opposed to just running a .exe) seems really daunting.
Having an opinionated and somewhat socially inept userbase doesn’t mean the OS isn’t user-friendly.
There are many linux distros that focus on being user friendly and they really are.
I’m way more socially inept than just somewhat
I second that. The friendliness of the main help forum(s) for the distro is what’s really the key, moreso than the software itself.
And we’ll fight to the death to decide which ones those are!
Oi, but I do agree.
man reading this was like seeing someone kidnap a mcdonald’s employee and expecting the execs to pay ransom
For the last bit, that shouldn’t be a problem. It’s like going to an ice cream shop and complaining there are too many flavors and people arguing over which flavor is best makes you decide to just not get ice cream.
What you should do instead is look at the flavors of ice cream and weigh what you want with what each flavor is. Only you know what you desire. Windows wants to make their system work for everyone, so then it works for no one because everyone has different wants and needs. It’s the ice cream flavor of them shoving every ingredient together and it just creates a mess.
As for games, it’s pretty good now. There’s the issue of some multiplayer games not having updated their anti-cheat, but a lot of anti-cheat is ready. Easy anti-cheat, for example, is fine if the devs have updated it and implemented it. However, it’s not like Proton where it makes most things work without devs doing any work. Check ProtonDB for compatibility.
What work software do you need? There are alternatives for MS Office, including online versions of MS Office that don’t require an OS. Blender is great. There are plenty of code editors. Most of the alternatives are also FOSS so don’t require buying anything, though donating is encouraged.
I’ve had similar thoughts and sentiments in my (short) Linux journey, my only advice is to distro-hop a bit as many Lemmings preach, find your fit (in VM/live mode or separate machine) and dive right in.
Side effects may include hair loss in early introduction, stick with it, it’s worth it.
For me it’s…
But! All the above said, I run Linux and have a Windows VM. And I also run Windows and have a Linux VM - so it’s almost there for me. If work & clients all ditched Microsoft’s ecosystem, it’d be a lot easier for me to but, unfortunately, they pay my bills.
Probably never gonna happen because Microsoft has an active interest in making it not happen
Knowing the VPN I’m forced to use I’ll just make a blind guess that the VPN you’re forced to use doesn’t support IPv6 either, because actually providing a product instead of an overpriced relic apparently is really difficult for Enterprise VPN Companies.
What games do you play? If you’re playing through steam, you can search protondb.com for your games to see how playable they are on Linux.
No. Most distros have a GUI that you can use to install stuff without touching the terminal, and most distros have a GUI for configuring your system (think Control Panel in Windows).
It’s not necessary to use the terminal, but I do recommend eventually learning how to use the terminal, for a couple reasons:
It’s more ubiquitous - like you said, a lot of places online give terminal instructions, not GUI instructions for things, so knowing your way around the terminal is helpful in those situations. Plus, it makes things a little more distro-agnostic - if I’m trying to install some program, I know I can probably run
apt installregardless of whether I’m running Mint, Ubuntu, PopOS, or any other Debian-based distro that uses the apt package manager.It’s usually faster. Opening a terminal window and typing in a few dozen characters is usually going to take less time than digging through a couple layers of menus.
It’s more flexible. A lot of times, GUIs are just fronts for a terminal based application, and sometimes they only partially implement the features the terminal app exposes. By using the terminal app directly, you aren’t limited by whatever options happen to be made available in the GUI.
Again though, it’s not necessary to use the terminal. It’s definitely helpful, especially if you want to do gaming, or if you’re used to being a power user (which it seems like you are in Windows), but certainly not a requirement these days.
The first condition already are In practice tru proton and wine (even the principal anticheat work). But the second is probably impossible, people will try to convince you to use the distros that they believe is good
Saying that, Linux mind is a good option for a Windows user
On the second point: pick whatever you like, distros are surprisingly similar and differ in technical details you might not even care about.
Oh, and don’t go for Gentoo. Gentoo is great and has its place, but person with a healthy brain won’t run this on desktop.
Distros being so similar is the entire reason why the comments about which is best for beginners usually descend into a mud slinging contest. Honestly most “popular” distros are perfectly reasonable for any beginner nowadays. But there is just so much choice it creates decision paralysis in people wanting to switch.
Yeah, distro variety is a block for adoption, but when you do adopt Linux, you understand why they’re there.
Good thing community starts to center on a few distros for beginners, particularly Linux Mint + 1 or 2 more. (I’m a Manjaro adept, but ready to bury the hatchet to welcome newbies, and always do recommend Mint - it is good too)
New Mint user here, it’s dope and I love it. Windows soon to be VM.
Congrats! One more person opened their eyes to freedom!
When you come to Linux, you never want back.
I’ve been experiencing Windows’ degredation since 98/XP, it’s been an extremely smooth transition from Windows 10 to Linux Mint.
Still working out the kinks with my game library but apart from new user errors it’s worked flawlessly (unlike Win10).
Thank you Lemmings for showing me to the light!
Edit/TLDR: it’s kinda like windows, but functional and user control is king.
That’s the best TLDR you could give at the end.
Generally UI and feeling are “Windows, but without BS”
100% on the TLDR there, I’ll edit as such, that comment is open source ;)
I’ve been running Ubuntu on a separate machine for a little while now, and it works great, just not a good fit for me.
I’m happy to say within 2 weeks of my dual boot I’m already on mint 90% of the time. It just fucking works. (Without waking me up at 2-4am sending the fans to mach 7 for a damn windows update).
My experience is that you don’t need the terminal as long as everything is running fine and you don’t want to do stuff outside the standard repos.
But my experience is also that something will break and you’re back to fiddling around in the terminal for hours
Exactly. I have my setup just the way I like it for final fantasy. ACT (a packet capturing DPS meter) doesn’t work without windows. Once that’s supported I may hop ship.
If a piece of software requires you to re-buy itself for a different platform why would you use such an application? I don’t get why people choose to torture themselves when there are SO many alternatives to literally anything.
Edit: thanks for the clarification on the re-buying part. Doesn’t apply to you then ʘ‿ʘ
Just because there is a “alternative” doesn’t mean its nearly equal in functionality.
If treating users like garbage is one of the features I would much rather use less functional software.
Yeah, but a lot of users want something that does exactly what they want without tinkering. Why does everyone in the Linux community project their readiness to tinker forever on the average user.
Switching an operating system doesn’t come without tinkering. Even reinstalling an existing installation doesn’t. You have to be ready if you are willing to make a switch.
That said, LibreOffice gives you exactly what you would expect from an office suite. And it doesn’t only apply to office apps. Pretty much every field is already filled with FOSS solutions that “just work”.
Im not talking about the operating system switch. That is the trivial part. Getting software to run on wine can involve a tinkering. Sure you can run a VM, but then you have 2 operating systems you need to take care of. Also there are a lot of add on’s for proprietary programs that might not run well even if you got the bas program to run. And then if you go through the VM route you might need hardware Passthrough.
All these things are possible for people that want to put the time into it. But the majority of the population doesn’t want to spend time on stuff like this. They would rather pay for the convenience and put up with AD’s.
Take my father for example, he is completely incompetent when it comes to technology. His new PC has Windows 11 and he still plays Solitaire. Which is now plastered with AD’s, but he doesn’t care enough to do something about it.
The average end user just has his priorities somewhere else.
I meant to convey my thought in the context of the person above refusing to switch to Linux because of “re-buying stuff” (they’ve already clarified they were talking about games). I do agree that people of little technological literacy wouldn’t be willing to put in the work to get everything working.
My stance on it is that everything comes down to individual situations. I’ve installed Ubuntu on my mother’s laptop and she’s been nothing but happy about it. I just think we shouldn’t gatekeep FOSS and encourage others to use it. Whether to actually try it or not is always up to the end-user.
@nolight @CheeseNoodle I believe one use-case for those licensed paid programs are the business who truly need some trustworthy software and dedicated support. The FOSS might be great for personal use, but maybe LibreOffice doesn’t fit every company’s needs
Also an important aspect for companies is liability. If the app they paid money for screws up customer data they have someone on the hook for that. If the FOSS version does the most they have on the hook is the 40 year old dude living in his parent’s basement maintaining the project they used. Not much money to be got there for damages.
I agree, though I think LibreOffice is not a great example as there’s very little room for error and something that you would need “dedicated support” for. That’s how I see it anyway. Never worked in an office.
However, the majority of companies that require using paid proprietary software also require the use of Windows itself. A safe bet in this situation would be to just set up a VM for work and use Linux for everything else.