Yeah, it’s a death cult through and through. I get some people chose to be child free, but people relate themselves as anti-natalism ain’t just about that.
I’m not exactly antinatalist, but I’m somewhat sympathetic to their position. The way I see it is this: humanity’s effect on nature is on the average, harmful.
We’ve been very successful as a species, but at the cost of a lot of others that weren’t able to cope with our success. Perhaps some species which are useful to us—sometimes just by being cute, have learned to live with us, or have learned to live despite us, have managed to thrive. But for one species that gained our protection, how many others have disappeared with no one caring?
If that’s not bad enough, I don’t think that the average individual human being is thriving. We’ve destroyed a lot only to build depressing cubicles for us to rot in.
I don’t think it’s worth it.
Having a child means condemning them into an ever worsening world. And I don’t think I’ll be able to properly equip my child to even have a smidge of a chance of being “well-off”, healthy or even happy.
However, our innate instincts, as well as societal and other pressures pushes people to have children even when it’s not going to end well for the children as well as their parents. Antinatalism is a counterbalance to this pressure.
What you’ve described is simply a deathcult, but from your perspective lol. Just because you sympathise with them doesn’t make them less of a deathcult.
However, you might need that for yourself.
Because i’m not receptive toward the deathcultist idea?
Is it more depressing than humans killing everything in sight including a whole damn planet with no control over their greed?
What would you say if there was a bug that is able to live almost anywhere on earth, destroying the nearby environment and making animals go extinct, poisoning the water, sky, soil, leaving trash that’s radioactive, poison filled or very hard to degrade, while killing each other for profit and doing imaginably dark and amoral things?
We kill insects for doing a lot less. Yet when it comes to us, we’re free to harm everything and everyone, and when someone says “we should destroy this species, they’re dangerous!” They’re therapy worthy.
I think what’s therapy worthy is not being aware of even a fraction of the dark shit that goes on in the world and being content because their bubble holds up just fine and that’s all that matters. Its delusion of grandeur experienced by a whole species. Anyone who says otherwise is ridiculed and treated like they’re ill. Isn’t that convenient
I would argue that the problem you are pointing out is cultural rather than biological. Humans are very well capable of living sustainably and respectfully and have done so for extended periods of times in different regions of the world. The endless consumtion of an ending earth seems like something that developed together with (e.g. western, capitalist, …) culture and ideology.
We need to work on changing our collective mindset rather than attempt our own disappearance.
Second part of argument: I believe we can. Humans are very capable to adapt and change. Not sure about collectives, but if you think you can convice a critical number of people to stop reproducing, I think you can do the same in convincing us to please fix our shit.
Right or wrong is beside the point. Therapy is about emotional balance and well-being. I sincerely hope you’re well but these kinds of rants often come across as personal anger being projected on topic x. I don’t doubt that’s how you see the world around you at the moment but not everyone does and that doesn’t mean they’re wrong, blind or stupid. Some people can see the same atrocious state you see and counterbalance it with the good they can also see around them. Being aware of our species wrong-doings is as important as becoming sensitive to its virtues. If someone can’t see any virtues at all, to the point they advocate death, they’re more likely either insensitive or have been handed a very rough hand in life. Therapy can help in any of those cases.
Actually, right or wrong is the point. I’m making an argument based on facts, and your argument is based on wild assumptions about me, based on my few paragraphs, not your actual thoughts. If you had good counter points then I would change my mind, but you don’t.
The problem isn’t the hand I was dealt with - it’s everyones. I have been lucky enough to have a not too bad, not too good existence but that never stopped me from looking at the less unfortunate to understand how they live. Do you want to talk about child prostitutes, slaves, people who have to scrape food from others trash cans to eat? Living in a coffin size “apartments” in Asian slums? People who have nowhere to eat, sleep, nowhere to call theirs? Who work with their hands in awful conditions for a life for millionaires they’d never mert? Aside from people, what about the countless dead animals, for sports, just fun etc? Had to die because their forests were taken and burned? Thousands of gallons of poison in all oceans, microplastics in our veins? What kind of virtue counter-acts this kind of destruction?
See, there are so many things that we do that require rage. I am not raging about my life, I am raging about the life we created in this world for ourselves and everything else. You may choose to bury your head in the sand and keep saying “oh, there’s a virtue, my life is worth living now” when you see another rainforest burning down, or another child murdered, that means you’re desensitised. You feeling good or bad about these things don’t change a damn thing.
Also, to make it clear, antinatalists are not terrorists or something lol, they oppose pain. They simply choose not to reproduce. This isn’t as extreme as any of you are making it to be.
Cool. I’m not making an argument nor countering whatever it is you believe, please don’t mistake my engagement, have zero interest in ‘discussing’ with you. I was merely answering your question about my previous comment. Live as you see fit.
Oh, sorry, did any of your pearls fall? Thanks for your precious “engagement”. I surely won’t mistake it with any meaningful encounter. Just another one with someone who lacks knowledge but has opinions on the matter for some reason, and cannot be bothered to think for a second to make an argument that isn’t empty virtue signaling.
I guess it’s scary for some people to participate in even a conversation about something new with an open mind without being condescending. All while defending “virtue”, ironically.
I mean, wanting humanity to die out is such a depressing thing to think. If you want that, you need therapy
Yeah, it’s a death cult through and through. I get some people chose to be child free, but people relate themselves as anti-natalism ain’t just about that.
I’m not exactly antinatalist, but I’m somewhat sympathetic to their position. The way I see it is this: humanity’s effect on nature is on the average, harmful.
We’ve been very successful as a species, but at the cost of a lot of others that weren’t able to cope with our success. Perhaps some species which are useful to us—sometimes just by being cute, have learned to live with us, or have learned to live despite us, have managed to thrive. But for one species that gained our protection, how many others have disappeared with no one caring?
If that’s not bad enough, I don’t think that the average individual human being is thriving. We’ve destroyed a lot only to build depressing cubicles for us to rot in.
I don’t think it’s worth it.
Having a child means condemning them into an ever worsening world. And I don’t think I’ll be able to properly equip my child to even have a smidge of a chance of being “well-off”, healthy or even happy.
However, our innate instincts, as well as societal and other pressures pushes people to have children even when it’s not going to end well for the children as well as their parents. Antinatalism is a counterbalance to this pressure.
If you think deathcult is a counterbalance to the world then i think you need to see a therapy for that. What is this, Attack on Titan?
I tried to give you an overview of how someone might be sympathetic to their views, but I should have known that you’re not receptive to such.
And yeah, if you give me money for the expenses needed for that all-curing therapy, sure, why not? However, you might need that for yourself.
What you’ve described is simply a deathcult, but from your perspective lol. Just because you sympathise with them doesn’t make them less of a deathcult.
Because i’m not receptive toward the deathcultist idea?
Sure, sure. Whatever you say.
Is it more depressing than humans killing everything in sight including a whole damn planet with no control over their greed?
What would you say if there was a bug that is able to live almost anywhere on earth, destroying the nearby environment and making animals go extinct, poisoning the water, sky, soil, leaving trash that’s radioactive, poison filled or very hard to degrade, while killing each other for profit and doing imaginably dark and amoral things?
We kill insects for doing a lot less. Yet when it comes to us, we’re free to harm everything and everyone, and when someone says “we should destroy this species, they’re dangerous!” They’re therapy worthy.
I think what’s therapy worthy is not being aware of even a fraction of the dark shit that goes on in the world and being content because their bubble holds up just fine and that’s all that matters. Its delusion of grandeur experienced by a whole species. Anyone who says otherwise is ridiculed and treated like they’re ill. Isn’t that convenient
I would argue that the problem you are pointing out is cultural rather than biological. Humans are very well capable of living sustainably and respectfully and have done so for extended periods of times in different regions of the world. The endless consumtion of an ending earth seems like something that developed together with (e.g. western, capitalist, …) culture and ideology.
We need to work on changing our collective mindset rather than attempt our own disappearance. Second part of argument: I believe we can. Humans are very capable to adapt and change. Not sure about collectives, but if you think you can convice a critical number of people to stop reproducing, I think you can do the same in convincing us to please fix our shit.
TBH that rant did very little to disprove therapy might be in order
What part of what I said is wrong, exactly?
Right or wrong is beside the point. Therapy is about emotional balance and well-being. I sincerely hope you’re well but these kinds of rants often come across as personal anger being projected on topic x. I don’t doubt that’s how you see the world around you at the moment but not everyone does and that doesn’t mean they’re wrong, blind or stupid. Some people can see the same atrocious state you see and counterbalance it with the good they can also see around them. Being aware of our species wrong-doings is as important as becoming sensitive to its virtues. If someone can’t see any virtues at all, to the point they advocate death, they’re more likely either insensitive or have been handed a very rough hand in life. Therapy can help in any of those cases.
Actually, right or wrong is the point. I’m making an argument based on facts, and your argument is based on wild assumptions about me, based on my few paragraphs, not your actual thoughts. If you had good counter points then I would change my mind, but you don’t.
The problem isn’t the hand I was dealt with - it’s everyones. I have been lucky enough to have a not too bad, not too good existence but that never stopped me from looking at the less unfortunate to understand how they live. Do you want to talk about child prostitutes, slaves, people who have to scrape food from others trash cans to eat? Living in a coffin size “apartments” in Asian slums? People who have nowhere to eat, sleep, nowhere to call theirs? Who work with their hands in awful conditions for a life for millionaires they’d never mert? Aside from people, what about the countless dead animals, for sports, just fun etc? Had to die because their forests were taken and burned? Thousands of gallons of poison in all oceans, microplastics in our veins? What kind of virtue counter-acts this kind of destruction?
See, there are so many things that we do that require rage. I am not raging about my life, I am raging about the life we created in this world for ourselves and everything else. You may choose to bury your head in the sand and keep saying “oh, there’s a virtue, my life is worth living now” when you see another rainforest burning down, or another child murdered, that means you’re desensitised. You feeling good or bad about these things don’t change a damn thing.
Also, to make it clear, antinatalists are not terrorists or something lol, they oppose pain. They simply choose not to reproduce. This isn’t as extreme as any of you are making it to be.
Cool. I’m not making an argument nor countering whatever it is you believe, please don’t mistake my engagement, have zero interest in ‘discussing’ with you. I was merely answering your question about my previous comment. Live as you see fit.
Oh, sorry, did any of your pearls fall? Thanks for your precious “engagement”. I surely won’t mistake it with any meaningful encounter. Just another one with someone who lacks knowledge but has opinions on the matter for some reason, and cannot be bothered to think for a second to make an argument that isn’t empty virtue signaling.
I guess it’s scary for some people to participate in even a conversation about something new with an open mind without being condescending. All while defending “virtue”, ironically.
Have a nice day!
Irony, thy name is … well, just check the user name. It’s all you need.
That’s because humans should look out for other humans and value our own species the most. That’s our obligation.