So as we all know on the news, the cybersecurity firm Crowdstrike Y2K’d it’s own end customers with a shoddy non-tested update.

But how does this happen? Aren’t there programming teams and check their code or pass it to a quality assurance staff to see if it bricked their own machines?

8.5 Million machines too, does that effect home users too or is it only for windows machines that have this endpoint agent installed?

Lastly, why would large firms and government institutions such as railway networks and hospitals put all their eggs in one basket? Surely chucking everything into “The Cloud (Literally just another man’s tinbox)” would be disastrous?

TLDR - Confused how this titanic tits up could happen and that 8.5 Million windows machines (POS, Desktops and servers) just packed up.

  • slazer2au@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Lastly, why would large firms and government institutions such as railway networks and hospitals put all their eggs in one basket? Surely chucking everything into “The Cloud (Literally just another man’s tinbox)” would be disastrous?

    Because they are best in class. No one else does EDR like Crowdstrike does. Can you imagine the IT support headaches if you had 200,000 PCs and servers some running one EDR and others running a different one. The amount of edge cases you would come across is ridiculous.

    It would make data correlation a nightmare if an actual security incident occured.

    • seth@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Best in class should be questionable now when they’re the sole direct cause of a worse global outage than any group of determined black hats ever has managed. If they’re considered best in class, the whole class needs to be held back to repeat the grade.

      • flambonkscious@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        Well obviously that’s about to change, and some of the core product its still fantastic, but their (presumably) greed and process handling around how they deliver changes has failed here.

        The product is still good, hopefully they can mature

  • slazer2au@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    8.5 Million machines too, does that effect home users too or is it only for windows machines that have this endpoint agent installed?

    This software mandated by cyber insurance companies to ‘keep your business secure’ aka, your staff broke policy so we don’t have to pay this out claim.

    No home user should ever run something like this at all. This is entirely a corporate thing.

  • Balinares@pawb.social
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    2 months ago

    This is actually an excellent question.

    And for all the discussions on the topic in the last 24h, the answer is: until a postmortem is published, we don’t actually know.

    There are a lot of possible explanations for the observed events. Of course, one simple and very easy to believe explanation would be that the software quality processes and reliability engineering at CrowdStrike are simply below industry standards – if we’re going to be speculating for entertainment purposes, you can in fact imagine them to be as comically bad as you please, no one can stop you.

    But as a general rule of thumb, I’d be leery of simple and easy to believe explanations. Of all the (non-CrowdStrike!) headline-making Internet infrastructure outages I’ve been personally privy to, and that were speculated about on such places as Reddit or Lemmy, not one of the commenter speculations came close to the actual, and often fantastically complex chain of events involved in the outage. (Which, for mysterious reasons, did not seem to keep the commenters from speaking with unwavering confidence.)

    Regarding testing: testing buys you a certain necessary degree of confidence in the robustness of the software. But this degree of confidence will never be 100%, because in all sufficiently complex systems there will be unknown unknowns. Even if your test coverage is 100% – every single instruction of the code is exercised by at least one test – you can’t be certain that every test accurately models the production environments that the software will be encountering. Furthermore, even exercising every single instruction is not sufficient protection on its own: the code might for instance fail in rare circumstances not covered by the test’s inputs.

    For these reasons, one common best practice is to assume that the software will sooner or later ship with an undetected fault, and to therefore only deploy updates – both of software and of configuration data – in a staggered manner. The process looks something like this: a small subset of endpoints are selected for the update, the update is left to run in these endpoints for a certain amount of time, and the selected endpoints’ metrics are then assessed for unexpected behavior. Then you repeat this process for a larger subset of endpoints, and so on until the update has been deployed globally. The early subsets are sometimes called “canary”, as in the expression “canary in a coal mine”.

    Why such a staggered deployment did not appear to occur in the CrowdStrike outage is the unanswered question I’m most curious about. But, to give you an idea of the sort of stuff that may happen in general, here is a selection of plausible scenarios, some of which have been known to occur in the wild in some shape or form:

    • The update is considered low-risk (for instance, it’s a minor configuration change without any code change) and there’s an imperious reason to expedite the deployment, for instance if it addresses a zero-day vulnerability under active exploitation by adversaries.
    • The update activates a feature that an important customer wants now, the customer phoned a VP to express such, and the VP then asks the engineers, arbitrarily loudly, to expedite the deployment.
    • The staggered deployment did in fact occur, but the issue takes the form of what is colloquially called a time bomb, where it is only triggered later on by a change in the state of production environments, such as, typically, the passage of time. Time bomb issues are the nightmare of reliability engineers, and difficult to defend against. They are also, thankfully, fairly rare.
    • A chain of events resulting in a misconfiguration where all the endpoints, instead of only those selected as canaries, pull the update.
    • Reliabilty engineering not being up to industry standards.

    Of course, not all of the above fit the currently known (or, really, believed-known) details of the CrowdStrike outage. It is, in fact, unlikely that the chain of events that resulted in the CrowdStrike outage will be found in a random comment on Reddit or Lemmy. But hopefully this sheds a small amount of light on your excellent question.

  • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
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    2 months ago

    But how does this happen? Aren’t there programming teams and check their code or pass it to a quality assurance staff to see if it bricked their own machines?

    I mean - we’re all just people. Fuck ups happen because people check other people’s work - even with excellent systems in place shit will slip through… we just try to minimize how often that happens.

  • kibiz0r@midwest.social
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    2 months ago

    But how does this happen?

    It’s destined to happen, according to Normal Accident Theory.

    Aren’t there programming teams and check their code or pass it to a quality assurance staff to see if it bricked their own machines?

    Yes, there are probably a gigantic number of tests, reviews, validation processes, checkpoints, sign-offs, approvals, and release processes. The dizzying number of technical components and byzantine web of organizational processes was probably a major factor in how this came to pass.

    Their solution will surely be to add more stage-gates, roles, teams, and processes.

    As Tim Harford puts it at the end of this episode about “normal accidents”… “I’m not sure Galileo would agree.”

  • slazer2au@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    That is the risks of DevOps continuous improvement/continuous development (ci/cd) . why break things one at a time, when you can break them in the millions at once.

    I fully expect to see CS increase their QA for the next year or 2 then slowly dwindle it back to pre fuckup levels when their share price recovers.

  • haui@lemmy.giftedmc.com
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    2 months ago

    Crowdstrike already did this years ago and the ceo was cto at mcaffee when they did this as well. Sounds like a culture problem if you ask me. I think the guy has an impulsivity issue.

    • monsterpiece42@reddthat.com
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      2 months ago

      Hell they had a similar incident on Debian servers THIS YEAR. Absolutely unacceptable a corp this half-assed has the type of control it does.

      • haui@lemmy.giftedmc.com
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        2 months ago

        To be fully honest, its how I see companies when I apply to them. You‘re supposed to „make things work“ no matter the risks. If you complain too much about „ethics“, „morals“ or other nonsense, you‘re out.

  • Railison@aussie.zone
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    2 months ago

    Could a solution to this be any of the following:

    • Windows performing automatic driver rollback in the event of it reaching an unbootable state
    • Software vendors pushing out updates to a smaller pool of endpoints and monitor for heartbeat for 30 mins or so before releasing for all endpoints
    • A way for windows to expose the relevant data to trusted software without the software needing to operate in kernel space
    • Match!!@pawb.social
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      2 months ago

      “Could a solution be any amount of basic sanity in software architecture” yes probably

    • Xavienth@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 months ago

      Basically the second one is standard practice, a phased rollout. The only reason you wouldn’t do one is if there’s some really bad exploit that is currently being exploited and you need to fix it now now now. So either somebody fucked up and deployed a regular fucked update as a critical patch, or a critical patch was shoddily made and ended up soft bricking everyone.

      But idk i don’t work in tech.

  • BCsven@lemmy.ca
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    2 months ago

    My thought is hackers hacked and pushed a crash, CEO has to claim it was an untested update to save face.

    • absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz
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      2 months ago

      That would be nice, but I suspect it is a lot simpler. Low or no QC pushed a fuct update out.

    • sunzu@kbin.run
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      2 months ago

      I did too but looks like comment section believes this was a genuine fuck up… But yeah prolly management under staffing and underpaying somebody.

      • BCsven@lemmy.ca
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        2 months ago

        Scary to think one software is a failure point of this magnitude…if any foreign state hackers didn’t already know the world’s failure point, they certainly do now

        • sunzu@kbin.run
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          2 months ago

          That’s my thinking also, the execs at these companies don’t really care. They are there to make the money. If they fuck up, they just lose their job likely still get paid out too. So for them there is every incentive to take risks.