Is Linux not free software itself? I thought propietary stuff was added downstream.
Am I getting something wrong?
The Linux-libre Wikipedia entry sums it up pretty well:
“According to the Free Software Foundation Latin America, Linux-libre is a modified version of the Linux kernel that contains no binary blobs, obfuscated code, or code released under proprietary licenses.[7] In the Linux kernel, they are mostly used for proprietary firmware images. While generally redistributable, binary blobs do not give the user the freedom to audit, modify, or, consequently, redistribute their modified versions. The GNU Project keeps Linux-libre in synchronization with the mainline Linux kernel.[8]”
Basically; some stuff in the kernel is either not free or not open but is included for convenience.
AFAIK, the Linux codebase is actually open source in its entirety. However it has parts that are capable of loading non-free stuff like firmware. The linux-libre project makes sure those parts are disabled.
Personally, I think it’s a fool’s errand as it would render most modern systems unusable (in the reasonable sense).
They also don’t apply such harsh judgement to firmware that resides in ROM, and only to firmware updates. In most of these cases you’d have systems with outdated firmwares with neither QoL nor security updates.
It really depends how you see the firmware boundary. You can either treat it as a set of magic numbers you load onto the hardware so it works or see it as an intrinsically programmable part of your system that you should be able to see the source code for or live without support for the device.
Concrete examples of such firmware: NVIDIA cards and nouveau. All of the kernel code is GPL, but you still need the firmware, which must be signed by NVIDIA and thus can’t be modified at all. Or some WiFi chip firmware.
Technically those could be permanently burned into a ROM chip on the device itself, but for convenience the vendor ships the firmware with the driver and load it at runtime so it always matches what the driver expects and save on a ROM chip. But now that means the driver is uploading a proprietary blob and being unable to provide your own is an artificial limitation imposed by the hardware. Sometimes such firmware artificially limits what the hardware can do, so the magic numbers can absolutely infringe on your freedom. Such firmware can also be the programming for an FPGA so it can get really complicated really fast. There’s also a legal aspect to it: FCC regulations on WiFi chips are typically enforced in firmware, so the manufacturer isn’t even allowed to let you modify it, but that’s also violating your right to tinker with your hardware and assume the liability. What if you’re not even in the US?
Some people would rather only have fully libre systems, but for most people a libre driver is better than a fully proprietary driver which is better than no driver at all and having to run a completely proprietary OS.
I think there are som non-free firmware stuff included in most distros.
https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:philosophy:incompatible_packages
I just want to know what did conky do to get in that list lol
They actually stopped using the linux kernel all together as well.
Linux itself is Libre on its own, but its modular and anybody can add non-libre software/drivers to it. Android is a popular example to see what that means. But to be fair, I don’t understand why Linux-libre exist. These projects would remove proprietary software from Linux. It’s a script, so maybe its intended to be used with any Linux Kernel you have, that comes with proprietary blobs? In that case the project makes very much sense to me.
But as you I am not educated enough to understand all of this.
Edit: Found the script, so you can look at what it does to understand its purpose better: https://www.fsfla.org/svn/fsfla/software/linux-libre/scripts/deblob-6.9
It exists because FSF. (watch Linus’s opinion on FSF) Unfortunately the FSF is full of obsessive people, who want politics to be an if-else problem. But that’s not how politics work, you always have to compromise somewhere. You cannot have hardware that uses open-source firmware, has schematics available, doesn’t use slave labor, is usable, is secure etc. You always have to choose between different evils.
But that’s not what the FSF does. They decided to draw a thick line through this blurry mess, so that these obsessive coders can have a digital high/low solution to this analog problem.
hm how do I continue…? It’s hard to explain because it does really make sense but I will try. So if some software runs on your computer and you can modify it from the OS, it has to be Open Source otherwise it’s not FSF big wholesum chungus certified. But if it runs on your PC and you cannot modify it from the OS, it can be closed source and still get the Chungus certification. What you end up with is that FSF recommends some old crap wifi cards running proprietary firmware because you cannot modify the firmware without external flashing. But it rules out new wifi cards that load the firmware during boot because the linux kernel cannot have proprietary software in it reeee. Obviously the latter situation is better for freedom because it’s at least easier to replace with Free firmware but they don’t care about that.
In other words Linux Libre exists only because of some stupid bureaucratic rule that actually harms Free Software instead of helping it.
Wait I haven’t told you about microcode updates! Microcode is proprietary software controlling your x86-64 CPU. Linux Libre does not include updates to this firmware even though the microcode is proprietary regardless. So with Linux Libre your CPU is controlled by code that is proprietary, broken and vulnerable to stuff like Spectre or Meltdown. This part is so stupid that it’s almost funny. (but it’s actually sad)
But that’s not how politics work, you always have to compromise somewhere
THAT IS how politics works. You have to always try to make as much noise in getting what you want with the hopes that once it comes to a compromise somewhere you end up in a better position.
I mean sure. But that is exactly what the FSF isn’t doing.
The FSF has clear guidelines and follows them rigorously, nothing else. It’s good that they don’t make exceptions. Any problem with microcode or other proprietary drivers starts with the fact that they are not free. Making exceptions would partially solve the problem, but the situation would not change significantly, and the FSF would then be violating its own principles.
The FSF’s job in this regard is to try to open debate about the problems of not having free security patches and, in any case, to try to uncover hidden vulnerabilities in proprietary tools and facilitate the creation of free tools that solve the problems.
But their principles are bs to begin with. They decided what’s good and what’s bad based on completely arbitrary metric. It does not matter whether code is baked into hardware or is flashed in it during boot process. Proprietary is still proprietary.
They should fight for 100% free software and choose the lesser evil from there instead of fighting for the lesser evil (or imo the bigger evil) from the beginning.
Edit: Imo they are violating their own principles spiritually. They are just avoiding violating their own principles bureaucratically.
You know anyone is capable of telling the same thing, but about proprietary code or about that stance you have? Not everyone has to follow the FSF steps nor LInux-Libre, they’re there for people who want them and follows their principles. They do what they think is right and invest in that, you don’t so you don’t invest in that. I think it’s great for them to work in projects like GNU Health, Linux-Libre or even Hurd (if it’s even active) so we can see more free software development in the future and free software culture in things like health devices (which may or may not be inside your body). I agree with you about microcode, though, but I think AMD is working on opening some microcode in their GPUs (I’m not sure about CPUs), which is great! You can just do your own thing, I prefer to use free software when I can and settle with proprietary code I can’t change, other people likes to settle with proprietary systems and a small group likes to force free software in everything they can. I can still help with donations, reporting issues (my favorite part about FOSS/OSS is clear communication) and helping the community until I’m knowledgeable enough in programming.
Btw, I don’t think we have to always settle, we can still fight and get things changing for the better. It may take some time, but I think it’s worth it.
I also think there are great projects under the FSF. My issue is the politics and Linux-libre because it’s harmful.
I don’t think CPU microcode will be open source but the good thing is that RISC-V and ARM don’t need microcode so that could be avoided entirely in the future.
Right now (and for a while from now) we have to always settle, the FSF only never settle because they settled when writing their nonsensical guidelines. Closest you can get to full open source device is the MNT reform laptop. Technically you can even have an Open Source CPU on it but everything is at the cost of usability and yet it’s still not perfect. But nothing is perfect imo, that’s why imo you can never settle.
Some people are just insane… That’s why they exist.
