Just a rant about how Microsoft has lost touch with it's retail customers and what you can do about it....=== Timestamps ===00:00 Introduction01:06 MS doesn'...
God i wish. And most everyone here could install a new operating system in about 20 minutes. But nobody else is going to because the learning curve for a regular user to install an os is basically perpendicular. Even if they had a linux installer already on a flash drive.
Oh just boot into the bios and find the option to boot for a flash drive and then boom installed.
Which requires a user to know,
What a bios is
What booting means
What boot options mean
What the model of their flash drive is
What button on their keyboard they need to press to get to the bios
What secure boot is
Where they need to go to turn off secure boot
How and where to back up their important files
What a disk partition is
How to reverse the changes made to the bios so that it doesn’t boot to usb by default.
And that’s assuming they know why they want a different OS, why they care and that they know about Linux in the first place.
Most people dont and never will. All you can do is install Linux for the ones you like the most and say a prayer to your favorite deity for the rest.
Same reason most non technical people using Linux today do so on the Steam Deck. If you want to spread Linux, trying to convince individuals is going about it all wrong.
You need to convince Canonical or Red Hat to spend more on partnerships with manufacturers. I’m not sure if anyone else has deep enough pockets.
That is why Microsoft spent a total of gazillion dollars to have its OS pre-installed on all PCs. We need more PCs with Linux pre-installed. This should be an antitrust issue but I am not knowledgeable enough to say how.
Agreed. All those things in your list are the hardest part of modern linux, if someone gets past the UEFI, BIOS secureboot hurdle the modern GUI experiemce is superior to Windows
Really the hardest part of desktop linux for a regular, so called “internet user”, in the installation.
They don’t have no clue how to install an operating system, even windows.
I once installed CentOS workstation for my father on his ThinkPad. Firefox and Libreoffice is all he needs. Automatic updates in the background make sure all the latest security patches are applied.
There have been few time when, after the update, the laptop hangs at boot. I’ve since told him to choose the second-to-last boot option from the “start-up menu” until the fix for the bug has been deployed (usually in within a 24h).
So really using Linux isn’t the hard part. Back in 2004 (ish) I went the painful route of installing my first Linux - Gentoo. But boy I learned a lot from it. Yes, I had a helping friend to get me over the hardest parts.
Linux distros have gotten friendlier and with better HW and SW support but PC makers and already established ecosystem have also made customizing more difficult. This means end users are increasingly discouraged to do anything that is not “authorized”, further driving away adoption of alternatives.
This is definitely the case. And by the time someone is willing to experiment with their PC its so old that the experience with Linux is hampered by the older hardware.
When are we going to riot to have the same button to enter bios setup everywhere? For me personally grinds my gears every time I have a different machine, check the bios boot message like a hawk to get what key I need to press to enter setup (after a while you sort of know by vendor, but for me that should not even be a thing)
I test Linux rhetoric on my sister to see what works. She often says Linux sounds so cool and aligns so well with her values but then she says she doesn’t care about computers and goes and buys a $2000 Mac to use as a web browser. It makes no sense to me and it’s hard to find out what will get people to make the jump to Linux.
She could have tried Linux on her current laptop for free and probably saved $2000 and knew this but instead buys and entirely new laptop and throws out the old one.
I agree. I feel like its a personality thing (honestly I feel like its a neurotypical thing, I’m not autistic or anything but definitely divergent) and/or a capitalism thing.
I don’t like cars, but I learned enough about how cars work to be able to take a functional role in my cars maintenance. Most people don’t do that, whether its a car or computer or whatever else in their life.
I’ve said this multiple times in other comments, but what would be amazing is a linux-installer.exe that shows the normal installer wizard with non-techie, beginner, and advanced options that allows installing linux from windows and booting right into it.
The ultimate goal would be for the desktop environment to have a windows theme by default, have all the alternatives installed for previously installed software with desktop icons that look the same, and all files to be where they were previously. That way you could just say “go to https://windowsupgrade.com / https://linux.install and run the installer” to anybody non-technical and have them running linux in under an hour.
It should be so simple and unassuming that people don’t even realise they installed linux. If they message back “I ran it, but I’m still on windows”, that’s a success.
That would lower the barrier to entry significantly. It doesn’t address the issues with the bios but someone mildly adventurous would have a much easier time going forward.
I think something like that would have to be sponsored by and maintained by a big distro though. I’m afraid if it was a community effort the amount of bikeshedding would stop it before it even began.
God i wish. And most everyone here could install a new operating system in about 20 minutes. But nobody else is going to because the learning curve for a regular user to install an os is basically perpendicular. Even if they had a linux installer already on a flash drive.
Oh just boot into the bios and find the option to boot for a flash drive and then boom installed.
Which requires a user to know, What a bios is
What booting means
What boot options mean
What the model of their flash drive is
What button on their keyboard they need to press to get to the bios
What secure boot is
Where they need to go to turn off secure boot
How and where to back up their important files
What a disk partition is
How to reverse the changes made to the bios so that it doesn’t boot to usb by default.
And that’s assuming they know why they want a different OS, why they care and that they know about Linux in the first place.
Most people dont and never will. All you can do is install Linux for the ones you like the most and say a prayer to your favorite deity for the rest.
It’s worth noting that the same applies when installing Windows.
Most people never do that either because it’s already
bloated with malwareinstalled on the PC they buy.Same with macOS, you buy the hardware with preinstalled software.
Absolutely. If Linux was pre installed that’s what people would use. Its the switching to Linux from something else that proves so complicated.
Same reason most non technical people using Linux today do so on the Steam Deck. If you want to spread Linux, trying to convince individuals is going about it all wrong.
You need to convince Canonical or Red Hat to spend more on partnerships with manufacturers. I’m not sure if anyone else has deep enough pockets.
That is why Microsoft spent a total of gazillion dollars to have its OS pre-installed on all PCs. We need more PCs with Linux pre-installed. This should be an antitrust issue but I am not knowledgeable enough to say how.
Linux pre installed is the only way for most people to use it I’m afraid.
Or at least no OS so you don’t have to pay Microsoft a license fee for a spyware OS you will never use.
Agreed. All those things in your list are the hardest part of modern linux, if someone gets past the UEFI, BIOS secureboot hurdle the modern GUI experiemce is superior to Windows
Most ppl can’t be bothered to install an ad blocker. Microsoft knows ppl will just take whatever they offer.
Definitely. I can genuinely say that the autotiling in PopOS completely changed my workflow for the better.
Who needs to know their flash drive model?
Mostly just so they know which boot device to pick.
Admittedly that’s probably not necessary or the least of someone’s issues.
Oh right.
Yes.
Really the hardest part of desktop linux for a regular, so called “internet user”, in the installation.
They don’t have no clue how to install an operating system, even windows.
I once installed CentOS workstation for my father on his ThinkPad. Firefox and Libreoffice is all he needs. Automatic updates in the background make sure all the latest security patches are applied. There have been few time when, after the update, the laptop hangs at boot. I’ve since told him to choose the second-to-last boot option from the “start-up menu” until the fix for the bug has been deployed (usually in within a 24h).
So really using Linux isn’t the hard part. Back in 2004 (ish) I went the painful route of installing my first Linux - Gentoo. But boy I learned a lot from it. Yes, I had a helping friend to get me over the hardest parts.
Fedora does btrfs snapshots on boot also, which is such a great feature that I’m surprised Microsoft hasn’t copied it for Windows.
That’s a really neat feature.
Linux distros have gotten friendlier and with better HW and SW support but PC makers and already established ecosystem have also made customizing more difficult. This means end users are increasingly discouraged to do anything that is not “authorized”, further driving away adoption of alternatives.
This is definitely the case. And by the time someone is willing to experiment with their PC its so old that the experience with Linux is hampered by the older hardware.
You can watch a 5min video on how to do it. It’s really not rocket science
Not all BIOS look the same. Not all computers have the same button to push to enter the BIOS
When are we going to riot to have the same button to enter bios setup everywhere? For me personally grinds my gears every time I have a different machine, check the bios boot message like a hawk to get what key I need to press to enter setup (after a while you sort of know by vendor, but for me that should not even be a thing)
Unfortunately, most people have the far simpler issue of “just not giving a fuck.”
I test Linux rhetoric on my sister to see what works. She often says Linux sounds so cool and aligns so well with her values but then she says she doesn’t care about computers and goes and buys a $2000 Mac to use as a web browser. It makes no sense to me and it’s hard to find out what will get people to make the jump to Linux.
She could have tried Linux on her current laptop for free and probably saved $2000 and knew this but instead buys and entirely new laptop and throws out the old one.
I agree. I feel like its a personality thing (honestly I feel like its a neurotypical thing, I’m not autistic or anything but definitely divergent) and/or a capitalism thing.
I don’t like cars, but I learned enough about how cars work to be able to take a functional role in my cars maintenance. Most people don’t do that, whether its a car or computer or whatever else in their life.
I’ve said this multiple times in other comments, but what would be amazing is a
linux-installer.exethat shows the normal installer wizard with non-techie, beginner, and advanced options that allows installing linux from windows and booting right into it.The ultimate goal would be for the desktop environment to have a windows theme by default, have all the alternatives installed for previously installed software with desktop icons that look the same, and all files to be where they were previously. That way you could just say “go to https://windowsupgrade.com / https://linux.install and run the installer” to anybody non-technical and have them running linux in under an hour.
It should be so simple and unassuming that people don’t even realise they installed linux. If they message back “I ran it, but I’m still on windows”, that’s a success.
Anti Commercial-AI license
That would lower the barrier to entry significantly. It doesn’t address the issues with the bios but someone mildly adventurous would have a much easier time going forward.
I think something like that would have to be sponsored by and maintained by a big distro though. I’m afraid if it was a community effort the amount of bikeshedding would stop it before it even began.
It would completely eliminate the bios issue, would it not? It would prevent them from ever needing to enter the bios at all.
They would most likely still have to disable secure boot.